Salmon’s Run is pegged as a mix between Serial and Radiohead — an audio drama that pays close attention to their soundtrack. After listening to the first two episodes I can definitely see how both influences play a role in the story. The other influence, while maybe not purposeful, are the early on-the-run movies like The Fugitive or Enemy of the State.

The story follows Salmon Warzynski, a New Yorker who accidentally sets a trashcan on fire with a cigarette which leads to interactions with the CIA, NYPD, and FBI.

Salmon’s Run was created by Nicholas Messitte, an engineer and sound designer by trade. Though he’d worked on several podcasts in the past, he had never ventured out onto his own to create something from start to finish. We were fortunate enough to meet Messitte and discuss the podcast, his influences, and his take on the world of audio drama. See below for our Q&A.

Listen: SoundCloud

Discover Pods: How’d you get into podcasting?

MESSITTE: Because of my work in engineering, I’d been sound-designing and mixing some podcasts here and there. But getting into the creative side of podcasting was, in truth, an act of pure desperation. I had this grab-bag of unfocused, quasi-related professions, and people kept telling me to choose one, which I could never do: Composing, mixing, mastering, sound-designing, post-production, film work, songwriting, writing, criticism, journalism—picking one would leave me sad about the others.

One day it occurred to me that I could pour everything I know how to do into this project I’ve always loved, Salmon’s Run, and it just sort of took off organically, becoming an all-hours obsession. It represents the combination and culmination of all I know how to do—it’s the one thing I’ve done where I can wear all my hats, and I don’t have to choose.

DP: In your own words, why should listeners tune in to Salmon’s Run?

MESSITTE: It’s a curious thing: what I wanted to make in Salmon’s Run wasn’t just a podcast, but a discography—a collection of music. An experience you could enjoy as a story the first time around, but then listen to again and again, whenever its groove suits your mood. So, every episode is both album and narrative; I picture it as existing at the intersection of Homecoming and Radiohead. If that sounds interesting to you, then I hope you listen and enjoy!

DP: Where’d (or how) did you come up with the story about Salmon and what unfolds?

MESSITTE: I can tell you the place, exactly, where the story came to me. It was in the movie theater, watching Burn After Reading. I love the Coen Brothers, so of course I was digging every moment of the film—how they dispensed with these sorry, lovable characters; how the shadow of Russia loomed over the whole thing; the satirical meaninglessness of all the action.

But while watching the movie, I felt this other story bubbling out of my head—a sad saga that starts with one person’s accident and turns into a global catastrophe. It wouldn’t go away. It was one of those moments where you have to drop everything else and keep up with what your brain is telling you. I didn’t have a phone with a notepad back then, so walking home from the theater, I must’ve looked like a crazy person, reciting the story beats aloud over and over again so I could remember them. But that’s how the story unfolded itself, from the trashcan explosion to the way the world ends.

Oh, spoiler alert: the world ends.

What’s really funny about the story is that it’s existed under three presidential administrations now, and I haven’t had to do any rewriting to make it feel more true—even though the political climate has swung so many times throughout the lifetime of the story. I guess that says something about something, but I have no idea what.

DP: Where do you think audio drama or fiction podcasts are headed in the next 3-5 years?

MESSITTE: I think that fiction podcasting is going to explode very soon. I began to think this after an interview I did a couple months back with the Nightvale team. At one point, Joseph Fink talked about how if you look at the ratings of some really buzzy TV shows—I think he mentioned Girls—some fiction podcasts actually have a larger audience than those shows have views, or spins, or streams, or whatever you call it.

That really floored me, because if he’s right, then there’s a vast audience out there, and it’s only a matter of time before the fictional podcast world has its day in the sun. Like, what we’re seeing right now are the Meat Puppets and the Melvins, who are utterly fantastic. But in terms of audience, Nirvana is just around the corner, if that makes sense.

DP: What’s the biggest challenge you face as an indie podcaster?

MESSITTE: One is time. An episode of Salmon’s Run takes around six months at present, because I’m composing the music, recording every instrument, laying down the narration, doing lots of parts, editing everything to fit the music, and nay-saying and doubting myself through countless drafts. This, in turn, is followed by the mixing/mastering process, with constant revisions along the way. So that’s a challenge.

But now that the project is live, I’m finding the biggest challenge is marketing. For me, all the tasks involved in self-promotion—tweeting, networking, pitching, et cetera—don’t come very naturally, so I really have to fake it till I make it. It can be hard to stay motivated and active in that area. But that’s part of the job. I don’t think I’m alone in this, so I hope that sharing these fears with people helps them understand that they too are not alone, and also, makes me a more relatable human being, and in turn, gets you to listen to Salmon’s Run.

How was that for marketing?

DP: Where do you want to take your podcast?

MESSITTE: The road. I want to get a six-piece band together with multiple drummers, where everyone can sing, act, et cetera, and I want to take every episode to mid-sized venues with great sound systems. I want people to be out of their minds, dancing to the buildings collapsing, or chanting along with the narrator. I want to expand sections out into long solos with great musicians taking the leads. It would be my dream to overhear someone say, or to read on twitter, “Salmon’s Run is coming to the 9:30 Club—they’re doing episode four! It’s gonna be sweet!”

DP: What other podcasts are you listening to now?

MESSITTE: I love Four Mondays by Sunny Bleckinger, and I really hope he does another round of it. It’s one of my favorite pieces of contemporary audio fiction. It’s so good-natured, like early episodes of Northern Exposure. I never feel like anything horrible is going to happen, and nobody will disappoint me; yet I’m thoroughly engrossed by it, so I’ve listened four times or so.

Other podcasts I love are Time Trip! by Just Press Playhouse. Not only is their work utterly winsome and charming, but the dudes there are just some of the sweetest individuals I’ve ever met. I’ve also just gotten into Dream State, and man, that thing is a tremendous piece of work. It’s insane. It reminds me of Southland Tales, if that makes sense. I’m really curious to see what Matt MacCarthy keeps doing, because I think his work is like the flip of the coin of Salmon’s Run, and it’s inspiring me to push myself into different arenas of sound.

DP: Anything else you’d like to add?

MESSITTE: I would just like to take this opportunity to thank you, Kevin, and also, to thank the Glocorp Corporation for their generous support.

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