I’ll continue to beat the drum on this until it’s engrained in the subconscious of everyone, but podcasts are the best medium for creative freedom. No other medium allows creators the freedom and flexibility to create a talk show, a scary audio drama, a documentary, and much more on a relatively limited budget while still able to appeal to the masses.

It’s an absolute pleasure to work in this industry and continue being introduced to innovative podcasts. I was delighted to come across Planet and Sky: The Deeper Story, for the shear fact it’s unlike ANY podcast I’ve ever listened to before. The premise is straight forward and simple, but the execution is anything but. Planet and Sky analyzes and explores the rock opera of the same name. Think what Dissect did for Kendrick Lamar and Kanye West, but for a crazy epic rock opera. Planet and Sky, the podcast, also goes a step further by injecting more music to help narrate the story.

Discover Pods was fortunate to exchange emails with Joel McKinnon, creator of Planet and Sky to discuss the podcast, what goes into making it, the challenges indie podcasters face, and the decision to make such a bold podcast. See below for our Q&A with McKinnon.

Listen: Apple Podcasts | Spotify

DISCOVER PODS: How’d you get into podcasting?

McKINNON: I got into podcasting after becoming a big fan of podcasts in general. As a history buff, my first crush was Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History and in particular the epic (and horrific) WW1 series Blueprint to Armageddon. I found myself gravitating to my love for ancient history with Scott Chesworth’s The Ancient World, then a few others centered on antiquity like Ryan Stitt’s History of Ancient Greece and Lantern Jack’s Ancient Greece Declassified. It was the latter that featured a promo for what was to become my favorite podcast to date, Doug Metzger’s Literature and History. I binged on about 60 episodes of this amazing podcast and bought all of his bonus shows from his website. L&H intends to cover the entire history of anglophone literature including its earliest ancestors, such as the ancient cultures of Sumeria & Akkad, the Egyptians, the Hebrews, and of course the Greeks and Romans. Doug is a total pro and besides researching and narrating the material, writes and performs his own music – ambient stuff, interludes, and sometimes hilarious comedy songs to close the show. 

I’d been thinking of doing a podcast as an alternative strategy for marketing my new rock opera, but had been planning a “making of” kind of show where I’d talk to collaborators and give some behind the scenes insights. One of Doug’s bonus programs, Rad Greek Myths, gave me another idea. He had created beautifully produced retellings of the classic myths with rich original music and some great twists and turns in the stories. It occurred to me I could do something along the same lines with Planet and Sky since, in a way, it was at its core a creation myth. I got in touch with Doug by email, shared my music with him and some of my ideas, and in short order we became friends and collaborators. Doug was happy to lend his considerable narrating talents and a lot of tips on how to make a podcast successful.

DP: In your own words, why should listeners tune in to Planet and Sky?

McKINNON: I think it’s a very cool story, but then I would, wouldn’t I? It also features some beautiful music from a variety of musicians I’ve had the pleasure of working with through the years. With some I go way back to my days in the band Jupiter Sheep in the nineties. Byron Bellamy on vocals and Melissa Olsen as keyboard wizard and the voice of Sky being ex-bandmates and chief collaborators on the album. Melissa returned to add gorgeous ambient background music as well. Mostly, though, I think people should listen to fully get the story behind the rock opera lyrics. A few verses in each song is rather limiting in how much information you can relate. My hope is that the podcasts’s depth is a useful compliment to the album, and that it might enrich the understanding of the lyrics when heard on their own.

DP: How’d you come up with the story that ultimately became Planet and Sky?

McKINNON: A lot of the inspiration comes from reading science-fiction stories about other planets, particularly Mars. Kim Stanley Robinson’s Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy was very inspirational, and also my time in The Mars Society, group advocating human exploration of that planet which had always fascinated me. The planet in my story isn’t Mars, but it resembles it in many ways: barren, cold, hostile to human life, but with a possibly wet past that could theoretically have harbored life long ago.

As a big opera buff, this seemed a natural way to express myself. I knew the ideas would be kind of insanely bold, so knew I needed a medium to suit that kind of effort. It seems kind of crazy to tackle something like this with no suitable experience, but that’s just the way I often do things.

DP: Are there other audio dramas and/or sci-fi works that helped inspire the podcast?

McKINNON: I really haven’t explored audio-drama much, beyond the L&H bonus shows I mentioned. As for sci-fi, there’s a lot of influences that probably were involved. The Robinson novels I mentioned above were a big influence, as were many Heinlein and Asimov books in my youth, and Robert Zubrin’s The Case for Mars being a non-fiction influence. Lots of early works like Verne’s First Men in the Moon, HG Wells’ War of the Worlds, and others contributed to the spirit of it. 

I’d have to give a big dose of credit to some of the earliest authors in the human race. The creation myths from ancient Sumeria like the Enuma Elish (the original flood story), the Epic of Gilgamesh, and then the fabulous Greek myths. Those were all potent food for inspiration. Many of those stories feature the personification of natural forces, sometimes on global scales.

DP: What’s the biggest challenge you face as an indie podcaster?

McKINNON: Just figuring out all the details of how to create it at a reasonably professional level and jump through the required hoops to get it approved on iTunes, have it hosted. Doug Metzger had answers for all my questions. Then there’s the podcast website. I work as a web engineer so it should be simple, but there are so many options for how to create a nice modern website and I got a little too perfectionist and put off completing it for a long time.

I guess the biggest challenge is finding an audience. I don’t feel nearly as comfortable promoting as I do creating.

DP: Where do you want to take your podcast?

McKINNON:Planet and Sky is by its nature limited to the nine episodes corresponding to the nine songs on the album. When that’s done this particular series will end unless I end up having a sequel which is entirely possible. What’s more likely is a new podcast sharing some of the same elements. I’ve thought it might be interesting to do a series on the fascinating stories behind song lyrics I like, especially when they involve ancient history.

DP: What other podcasts are you listening to now?

McKINNON: I already mentioned a few. Literature and History is my serious addiction. I have to listen to each new episode immediately. Other shows on history I follow regularly are the Mirror of Antiquity and the Maritime History Podcast. Soonish is a cool show I like on future trends. Some more philosophical shows I like are Steven West’s Philosophize This! and Sam Harris’s Waking Up. I also follow a lot of tech podcasts for web development including JAMstack Radio, Syntax FM and ShopTalk. I’m all over the place.

DP: Anything else you’d like to add?

McKINNON: Just a huge thanks for asking these questions! More than anything I would like to expose this story to as wide an audience as possible, and if you can help a few more people tune in I am very happy about that. There are some ideas and concepts partially hidden from view, and I’d love hearing people dig into it and engage me on them. I am happy to correspond via email at planetandsky@gmail.com. It would be great if I could inspire someone else the way other podcasts have inspired me.

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